Hi Paul,

I’m not Nicole but I’ll share MY experience. Sometimes you dont have the opportunity to find out these things upfront – prior to promoting the product. It might be a special offer, or a launch promo, or something similar… and it isnt until later that you get a good feel for the merchant.

I found myself in this situation last year with an awesome product that I really got behind. It was brand new, and I got a sneak peek before it was published (a physical product) and the price point was perfect.

Post-launch was a nightmare, and I invested a lot of time into damage control. But there was no way to foresee any of it going in…

Most of the time I’ll purchase the product I want to promote – even if given an evaluation copy. And I do this because I want to see the sales process, the OTO’s, the follow-up, etc. But you just dont always have that option.
.-= Lynn Terry´s last blog ..Staying Focused When You Work Online =-.

Nicole,

Why don’t you say how you really feel? lol

I have to admit there is a lot of garbage to wade through sometimes but sometimes you have to mine a bunch of rock to get to the diamonds.

Not to mention (one man’s trash is another’s treasure)

I’m curious as to how you can promote a product to your customers because of quality and I would hesitate a guess (valuable for your clients) and then slam them for spam.

Please explain.

Paul

Great post Nicole!

But this got me thinking about what someone said to me about amember…when you choose to send a message to all your “active and paid members” affiliates are getting it too. And I don’t understand that because affiliates are not paid members, so why would they get the email?

Now I’m feeling guilty for possibly sending my affiliates promos *blush*.
.-= Melissa Ingold´s last blog ..Avoiding Writer’s Block When Writing Articles =-.

Hi Honey!
Been reading your blog and comments. As you know, I am pretty uneducated, no real uneducated, when it comes to affiliate programs and the like, but, as you also know, I am VERY educated when it comes to wine. The nectar of Godesses! You crack me up! Thanks for the fun, albeit slightly intoxicated, trip through your world. Mine is much less complicated, so I think I will open that bottle of wine that’s been staring at me all evening. I know… no drunk blogging, Mom.
L8R Honey! lol kiss kiss!

Slightly Tipsy Mummy

Mom’s last blog post..Back From Vacation… The Connection Has Been Made Once Again

I wonder if the “launch ‘em and leave ‘em” mentality is due to Entrepreneurial ADD?

I find that a lot with people that I work with who are mid-range entrepreneurs (as far as success level) — they’ll wrap up a project, launch it, make a few sales, and then get excited about the next thing and run off to do that.

That’s where an affiliate manager/marketing manager/JV broker can continue to bring in long-term profits.

Hmm… I’m thinking that drafting a report on the topic may be in order.

“Damn keys”

Rob Sellen’s last blog post..Lifestream vs Blog…why the damn vs?

Woah! This has turned into a great thread!

Nicole… hope you are not choking there on gurus, you using sauce at least I hope to wash them down, cos a bet a few of them are a bit “rubbery”!?

You know, what Lynn say’s above about the segmentation of your list(s), the fact some gurus can’t be bothered with that…well is a plus for those who can be bothered.

Plus the fact you make each 2money list2 even better because you specifically cater for them when emailing them.

Greed and short-sightedness is what makes them not bother anymore.

You notice those who trumpet about their online wealth the most are the ones who are actually the noisiest? IE less value coming from them now.

Yet they are the ones who shaout about lifestyle and sitting on the beach doing nothing … that’s crap, they are sat at the damn pc all day being… noisy.

I am on hardly any list anymore, more of the same old junk most of the time, in fact…I just looked, I am on four newsletter list now!

The best thing I did was take less notice of them, dump the noise and keep the real gems, and use the time better.

Tipple anyone?

Rob

Rob Sellen’s last blog post..Lifestream vs Blog…why the damn vs?

“Quoting Lynn: They don’t seem to care that they would build a more loyal affiliate base AND customer base by continuing to support their “this will change everything!!” product well beyond the product launch phase.

Imagine how much more successful you would be if you continued to provide tools and resources, were a true market leader, and success stories rose up from your group consistently./”

It’s for the very issue that Lynn is talking about that I’m seriously considering finding myself an affiliate manager. I’m NOT a guru, but I do have my own products that I sell with affiliates promoting them – and I want to help my affiliates be successful in promoting my products. It only makes sense that helping them will also help me too.

One person can only do so much and do it well. I’m busy creating my products – I am finding it difficult to also find time to learn how to best manage my affiliate AND provide them with awesome materials to promote my products AND train those that need it AND ….. you get the idea.

One can’t be an expert at everything. As I always say, I can’t get any more starch in my SuperWoman cape.

Time to enlist the help of an Affiliate Manager.

You just join in the love fest any ol’ time.

As great of a cart/product/program as Butterfly Marketing is for running an affiliate program, since you have so many wonderful products, I felt like “Hey! I only get credit for the one sale, even though they’re going to end up buying all of Bob’s other stuff because he’s the best!”

I love your new IMSuccessLibrary.com. It’s a great solution and I have buzzed in there on multiple occasions to watch your videos (yes, gasp! videos) to get a different perspective on things that I’m doing. It’s a great resource for all online entrepreneurs.

Just to break up this Nicole and Lynn lovefest (or at least get in the middle , I’ll add that what the two of you are getting at (i.e., evergreen product promotions and building relationships with your affiliates) is exactly why I’ve been changing my marketing focus over the last month.

I’m in the middle of promoting the 3rd edition of one of my virtual workshops, but before and after, I’m pushing all my energy into my http://IMSuccessLibrary.com, so affiliates have just one site that they would want to promote, with recurring commissions.

Assuming this goes as planned, the IMSL will enable me to focus my attention on an ongoing basis with this group of customers, while adding more promo tools on a regular basis.

It’s because of talking with people like Lynn and Nicole (and my accountability partner Scott Tousignant) that this process is underway, and I can’t thank you all enough for helping me “see the light” of the inefficiencies of my marketing plan leading up to this point.

Bob Jenkins

p.s. I for one embrace the guru tag in the whole “teacher under the baobab tree” sort of way. Anybody want to help me reclaim its rightful place in the etymological landscape?

Bob The Teacher’s last blog post..Monumental Metaphor: DC Reflecting Pool

From what I’ve seen, a lot of the courses and products stay on the market. As an affiliate, I still make sales on one of those “big product launch products” every single month. That’s because I’m not a … one night stand affiliate

What bothers me is that the merchant doesnt continue to encourage affiliates with new material, or encourage customers with follow up material.

In fact, it seems they move on to their next product launch and treat the last product like a step child!

They don’t seem to care that they would build a more loyal affiliate base AND customer base by continuing to support their “this will change everything!!” product well beyond the product launch phase.

Imagine how much more successful you would be if you continued to provide tools and resources, were a true market leader, and success stories rose up from your group consistently. You’d earn more credibility *and* cash!

We’re yelling into the wind when it comes to guru’s, Nicole… but this thought process is chock full of tips for anyone that is entering the market with a product and an affiliate program – that really wants to GO BIG with it, and make it something incredible.

Lynn Terry’s last blog post..Twitter Marketing: What’s Your Strategy?

ooh, Lynn, you’re giving me way much fodder for a Gag me with a Guru series.

The product launches drive me bonkers, too. If the material is really that good, and it’s evergreen and quality, and *really* offers the results that it claims, then isn’t it doing the community a disservice by taking it off the market? Sure, have a launch as a firesale-type thing and even take it off the market for a bit to restock or whatever, but then make it available long-term.

And, another thing! (Here I go again…) Many people have limited funds right now. They may WANT to buy a course from their favorite mentor, but may need to wait until their next paycheck. Does it make sense to have them pass entirely on the offer because it’s removed from the market? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or maybe the products don’t continue to sell afterwards because they were too high priced to begin with and won’t continue to carry the hype factor after the launch?

I wonder if, as trust online becomes harder to earn, and skepticism grows, the days of hyped of product launches will become fewer and farther between? Or if as fear grows and the economy continues to struggle, that people will be more afraid of missing out on that ONE thing that will give them success so it’ll actually work better. Any guesses?

That enough food for thought? lol.

It’s a good roll – stay on it!

I’ll pipe in and say that I wish merchants would get off the product launch bandwagon and be on board to promote a product for the long haul. I understand that the actual product launch is where they make the bulk of their profits, but those products would continue to sell if they continued to motivate and encourage their affiliates!

I hate to get behind a product, because it’s great, and then find all support (both for me and the potential customer) falls off to nothing once “the big day” is over.

But of course, I remain on that never-ending promo list we discussed, even though some NEVER mention that product again. EVER.

Lynn Terry’s last blog post..Twitter Marketing: What’s Your Strategy?

Thanks everyone for your contribution. I promise I’ll let it drop, but as I’m going through this, I’m figuring out how I feel. We’ll call it journaling our marketing feelings. lol.

As for my Lynn friend..

We obviously agree on the spam issue. If I’m promoting say Greta Guru’s stuff and she sends me a note about HER latest course, I’m cool with that because I’ve already decided that she has good info or I wouldn’t promote it. However, in the latest round of buddy product launch emails, it seems the affiliates were being treated as just another chunk of their leads lists (as we discussed). Pair that with the Product Launch Formula of *really* warming up those leads (uh hem, affiliates) with lots of emails and it was a bit insane and a big ol’ turnoff for me.

Also, when it comes to training, I certainly don’t mind getting an affiliate email with a new promo tool and finding a link to some training included in *that* email. I just don’t like having the overall bulk of emails because it wastes my time. Yes, hitting the delete button is an option, but I still have to open the emails in order to see if I need the info or not, and that time adds up. (Lynn “Training if it’s done right.” I like that!)

Obviously I spend way too much time analyzing what affiliates want and need. But, it’s kind of my job.

Thanks again for reading and for commenting. I really appreciate it!

Nicole, BTW, I love your subject: “Gag me with a Guru.” ROFL! There’s some GREAT information on this page. I’m printing it out.

Traci (RE: Comment #24):

If you asked those guru’s, I’m sure they would blame it on their VA. Or their mailing list manager. Or their something.

But I have actually had this conversation with more than one of them, and they consider the segmenting too much trouble. Even when Aweber bends over backwards with new features JUST for this purpose.

Ultimately, the responsibility is on them personally. They are the name people think about when they get annoyed, or unsubscribe. They are responsible for training the VA correctly. And they are the one that is affected by it directly.

Lynn Terry’s last blog post..Twitter Marketing: What’s Your Strategy?

You know where I stand on the promo/spam issue. It’s common, and it’s highly annoying.

For anyone using email marketing (and you *should* be) take it as a tip: segment, create micro-lists, and make your message-to-market-match as strong as you possibly can. THAT is where the money is, and where you’ll create a loyal readership.

On the topic of Affiliate Training, I’m still on the fence. I do like your ideas of hand-picking your super affiliates and putting them on a separate list. I’ve been on a couple of these over the last few years and it really gets my attention (turns me into a super loyal affiliate!).

Done right, I wouldnt mind some sort of ongoing affiliate training from a merchant. As long as each email contained a new promo image or angle – something the super affiliates could pluck & use. It could also go on to explain how to use it, or include creative ideas – or maybe a link to a great blog post on best placement for links/images (*ahem* lol).

I get what you’re saying with the 90/10. But sometimes… I’m actually in that 10. The occasional email gets my attention and reminds me to go log in and consider doing a promo. If I sign up for a program and never hear another word, well… I’m an outta sight outta mind kinda gal, to be honest.

Like I said, I’m on the fence with the training stuff. Done right (that’s the key!) I dont think I mind it. But yeah – done wrong, it’s a nuisance.

Lynn Terry’s last blog post..Twitter Marketing: What’s Your Strategy?

Felicia –

I think that having your mom on your list is awesome. What a great way to keep oneself in line.

I wrote up a nice long message, and, of course my PC crashed, so let’s try this again.

There are at least 2, possibly 3, issues that are coming up here.

1. Bulking all affiliates into one group.
This to me is the opposite of everything I’ve been taught in the last few years of internet marketing. A Lynn Terry is not the same as a person who is starting her first blog. To treat them the same doesn’t make good business sense. A newbie NEEDS training. A super affiliate probably doesn’t want the noise. And, honestly, how can you possibly send them both the same messages week after week and expect to connect with both groups?

I’m not against training newbies. In fact, I’m all for it. BUT.. I’m not going to assume that the highly-experienced affiliates want the same info.

Solution #1: Start a VIP or Advanced List and add your top affiliates to it or manually contact them when news happens.

Solution #2: Start a Newbies List and invite those who need more info to join it.

Solution #3: Add a blurb to the end of your promo updates that includes links for more training and info in your affiliate center.

2. Sending Updates about Promos & News, etc.
My problem is that I’m inundated with so many emails that I am missing important updates for the affiliate programs that I love.

Therefore, I am being forced to choose between spending my time filtering the excess emails in order to continue to receive the important updates OR unsubbing and risking the chance of missing out on good stuff.

3. Spamming your Affiliates.
During several product launches the last month, I’ve clicked on “unsub” in mailings that I received promoting the newest courses and realized that the only mailing list that I was signed up for was their affiliate mailing list. That means that I’m getting emails that I did not sign up for. Wouldn’t that technically be considered spam?

I do have one thing to say about #3 above. If you are treating your affiliates with such little respect, then I hate to see how you’re treating your leads and customers. So, those programs are now getting the boot.

I’m not trying to rip on the good affiliate programs, and if you’ve sent out a great freebie to your affiliates as a training piece on occasion that you were really wowed by, awesome.

However, *knowing* your affiliates, segmenting your lists, and treating them with care can go a long way.

I know that there are bigger battles out there, but when I’m on vacation for a week and come back to 200+ emails and go through promo after promo … it became again one of my biggest pet peeves.

Hopefully that clears things up.

I have 477,721 unread emails in my junk e-mail folder at the time of this post. sad yet true.